Yellow Belt "What if" Situations - Delayed Sword

[Vitruvius]

I'd like to post a potential solution to the first what if question posed in the AKLA manual:

1. What if your opponent throws a punch at you instead of grabbing you?

I would suggest if this is a right jab that you could still execute the right hammering inward block and potentially finish the technique, however if it was a roundhouse punch wouldn't you execute the Sword of Destruction from the opposite side?

Any suggestions and feedback is encouraged!

[administrator]

This response was saved from your previous post. A couple of weeks ago, our database was updated and lost your original question. You originally had two statements, so this response relates to those:

The topic of What-If solutions is one of the most important to fully understand American Kenpo.

Your answers are very good. I would like to add a few comments:
1st - to block a true jab is very difficult. Cuffing and parrying is what the best of the boxers do to avoid the jab.
2nd - You mentioned to work the opposite side of a technique. This is also a very important concept. When should you work the opposite side of your techniques? I always suggest to my students to not work the opposite sides of the techniques until after you have mastered the 1st side to the point of intinctive muscle memory. For instance, if you are really working the techniques consistently, daily, then the opposite side of Yellow Belt can be introduced into your practice after you have tested for Purple Belt, and similar for the other belts as you progress upward. When you work conflicting stimulus/respone too soon, you begin to 'stutter' or 'freeze' at critical moments (Hick's Law). Hick's Law only applies to the choice of two or more options for a given stimulus. Hick's Law does not apply to instinctively trained reactions.

When you study the 'What If Phase' questions that I pose in the Library of Kenpo Manuals (http://www.arnis.org/home_study/library.htm), you have to understand where I am trying to direct your attention and how to apply Ed Parker's 'Formulation Equation'. Information about this equation is better described in our Library of Kenpo and Ed Parker's Infinite Insights Into Kenpo Series. So, going back to the "What If" question posed regarding a Roundhousing punch, you can; step forward with the right foot, (insert) a left check while executing a right hammering inward block, (delete) the right front kick, and continue with the right outward hammering handsword. You will then have arrived at the first two movements of Five Swords. In 2nd Brown you will learn another technique that leaves the front snap kick in the Five Swords sequence.

So, the purpose of working through the What If Phase questions is to "Formulate" answers around the 'Ideal Phase' technique. When you can do this, then you will realize that there are only a few techniques from which all techniques are derived (Family Related Techniques, Master Keys, etc. (http://www.arnis.org/products/familygroupings.htm)).

To help you through the process, I always pose 'What If' questions that will lead you to realize where these connections are found. You can 'What If' into infinity, but reducing your options into instinctive responses will lead you to mastery of the system.

I'm very pleased that you are working on this important topic.

Kevin Lamkin

[Vitruvius]

What a great response. Is the formulation equation learned over time from the manual and videos or is it introduced at a specific belt level? Is this the same for the Ideal Phase technique?

So, if I read this right, we can eliminate the kick because the forward movement puts us in immediate range and the block to hand sword strike is the quickest counterattack?

[administrator]

The Formulation Equation is a method developed by Ed Parker to teach you how to tailor and adapt techniques to new situations. It is taught in his Infinite Insights Into Kenpo book series, and in our Library of kenpo Manuals (http://www.arnis.org/products/library.htm). The Ideal Phase is what is taught on each technique in the curriculum. The Ideal Phase teaches the movements, concepts and principles that is revealed at that point of the curriculum The next phase is the What If Phase, where a question is posed that may, or may not, need alteration of the Ideal Phase of the technique to best address the question. The Formulation Phase is where the What If question is addressed using Ed Parker's formulation equation.

So, if I read this right, we can eliminate the kick because the forward movement puts us in immediate range and the block to hand sword strike is the quickest counterattack?
The kick can be eliminated for those reasons, and many others. I can also be left in depending on how you formulate your What If scenario.

Kevin Lamkin

[Vitruvius]

Okay, now on to questions 2 and 3 for Delayed Sword:

2. Your opponent throws a left punch at you while holding you shirt or lapel?

I suggest you could still drop into a right neutral bow stance while simultaneously executing the right hammering inward block to his right forearm and immediately execute a right outward block to address the left punch. To finish, you could execute a right diagonal hand sword to the upper left side of the opponent's neck.

3. Your opponent throws a left punch at you while pulling you toward him?

I suggest you could execute a left outward block to his right arm while simultaneously stepping forward into a left neutral bow stance, then immediately execute a left hammering inward block to his left forearm. Next would be a shift to a left forward bow stance while executing a right vertical thrust punch to your opponent's sternum, then finishing with a left outward horizontal whipping back knuckle strike to the opponent's left temple, similar to the Alternating Maces technique.

What do you think?

[Lance C]

One quick point: Do a risk analysis, take care of the active weapon first using the most efficient block from the point of origin (where your hands already are) at best, you can check the arm to keep it there and from getting into your face (even accidentally) think of it this way, if his hand slips from the lapel grab and you and up too far over to catch the left punch, or you get tugged downward diagonal from the lapel grab, that left hits mighty hard.

Not to get too far ahead, but if someone tugs you with a grab, how many different ways can you go with it? and which one's are practical? ie up, down, left, right, forward, backward and compounds of those, ie forward, left and down. This positioning is also a foundation for the self defence techniques, right now you just want to give yourself some room and stability by stepping back, but certainly as your skills increase, you will find other areas to explore.

[Vitruvius]

Hi Lance,

That's a good point. Perhaps an outward block to first address the punch is more appropriate and then deal with the shirt grab.

Thank you for the advice! :)

[The Tabasco Kid]

Since the window of opportunity to stop the grab with Delayed Sword is gone in the "grabbed with the right and preparing to hit you with the left" scenario, wouldn't the next logical move be Triggered Salute? The attacker has made contact with you and that is the triggering event for Triggered Salute, no?

[Vitruvius]

After learning more techniques for yellow I thought I'd fall back and revisit this topic based on the good question that was posted.

After learning Triggered Salute it appears this technique is "triggered" by a push with the right hand, which borrows momentum and results in the simultaneous right neutral bow and right thrusting heel palm strike.

Based on the beginning of this technique, wouldn't the palm strike need to be changed to an outward block to defend against the left punch? Otherwise, the rest of the technique may be finished after this alteration, considering where your attacker may be.

Just my thoughts, although perhaps Kevin or another senior member could offer their opinion?

[administrator]

Each technique teaches specific concepts that can be used in other situations. The 'What If' phase leads y ou to those situations.
From the previous posts on this thread, it appears that the 'What If' discussion about 'Triggered Salute' has progressed to punching situations.

So now, look at the overall discussion and see if there are any areas to 'graft' techniques. Two techniques have been listed Delayed Sword and Triggered Salute. Can they 'graft' in principle? When it comes to punching, it appears that the next step you should consider is left and right punches from the inside. For those, look at Five Swords and Shielding Hammer.

A word of caution. It is easy to 'What If' to infinity. However, it will not necessarily get you anywhere. Pay attention to the principles involved. Not all techniques graft. That is when you need a new skill set to work with.

Kevin Lamkin

[Vitruvius]

Should a student learning the yellow belt material jump ahead and learn Five Swords and Shielding Hammer?

What are the key principles involved with Delayed Sword that we should consider? The manual has a section that lists concepts and principles combined. What are some specific bases of conduct with this technique?

I appreciate your patience with me on this topic. In the past when I trained in traditional Karate, we could never ask our instructor these questions. We were expected to train in the same techniques over and over for countless hours with no variation or thought about "What if". I agree that the technique in it's Ideal Form should be ingrained into your mind, but variation is essential to comprehend and survive.

This is one of the great strengths I see so far in Kenpo and the AKLA. We can study the material closer and discuss it freely without fear of our instructor barking out "you're thinking about it too much, just do the technique as I showed you!" Sounds crazy I know, but I've seen it happen a few times! :)

[The Tabasco Kid]

Speaking from the bottom of the ladder, it sounds OK to me so long as you have a firm grasp of the concepts that Delayed Sword and Sword of Destruction are supposed to teach.

[administrator]

Should a student learning the yellow belt material jump ahead and learn Five Swords and Shielding Hammer?
I recommend staying with the curriculum. Too much jumping around gets you nowhere.

What are the key principles involved with Delayed Sword that we should consider?
We laid the principles out very well in the manuals.

I understand where you are coming from where the teacher tells you not to think too much, just do what you are told. In many ways, especially in the beginning, it is true. You have to train simple ideas and principles before you can link larger conepts together. If you have been training Delayed Sword and Triggered Salute to the point of testing, then you are ready to move on.

Always work things this way:
1. Learn the basics (train them well)
2. Train new techniques (in the order that Ed Parker listed them in the curriculum) to the point where they become second nature (not having to think about each move).
3. Then progress to the What If stage, which leads to the Formulation stage.

The process of the What If and Formulation phases will lead you to discover many new things. Eventually, you will learn the Ideal Phase technique that may answer your What If solution to previous techniques. Those become good indicators that you are grasping the concepts correctly.

I strongly urge you to stay with the plan, and train hard. I have seen many bookworms, who can talk the kenpo talk, but not really ever master anything. I always tell my students to question the technique and try to answer the What Ifs within the confines and context of the Ideal Phase. When you have exhasted all of the possible solutions, then you will have learned a great deal, and will have 'mastered' that technique. On the same token, you don't have to truly 'master' the technique before you go on to the next. That's what lifetime training is all about. The belt curriculum is a reflection of competency not mastery.

So, train hard - and move on.
Kevin Lamkin

[Vitruvius]

Thank you, Kevin. This discussion has provided clarity on the material.