Plyometric Training

[pigram86]

Does anyone use plyometrics in their training routines? Just looking for feedback.

Here is a coll link that i found regarding this.

http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/martial-arts-training.html

[Xperience]

Does anyone use plyometrics in their training routines? Just looking for feedback.

Here is a coll link that i found regarding this.

http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/martial-arts-training.html


Hi p'86 ~
To my knowledge, it's an effective form of training. The TKD guys have always used it to develope their jump-kicking skills; It's also effective for developing core/upper body strength. It makes sense to me, due to the fact that one developes strength in movement, rather than developing strength through relatively static support (weights/machines). After all, Kenpo is all about motion. My .02.

:) X

[profesormental]

Greetings!

Plyometrics are mostly useful when the movements are very similar to those the activity you're training for.

Like clap push ups are good for, well, pushing! Pushing is very useful in personal combat situations.

The jumps can be hard on the knees so I would recommend them in moderation: a few sets of about 10 reps 2 or 3 times a week is more than enough.

The recovery time for plyometrics is almost the same as for heavy weight training.

This is because the level of muscle TENSION generated in both regimens is comparable.

And the muscle tension experienced is what dictates the stimuli and effect of the exercises... the same tension over a a smaller time period builds power and explosiveness, while the tension over a greater time builds more endurance, static strenght and slow twitch muscles.

Hope that helps.

Juan M. Mercado

[Lance C]

Does anyone use plyometrics in their training routines? Just looking for feedback.

Here is a coll link that i found regarding this.

http://www.sport-fitness-advisor.com/martial-arts-training.html

I have been working with Plyo's for a bit now, all I can say is look for one's the affect your horizontal motion more than your vertical. The horizontal one's give you power. They use them much in savate to cover 6 to 8 feet on a glide, and the hit is accurate and very powerful. Vertical plyo's give impressive lift, unless you are into urban acrobatics as an escape and evasion plan, probably the horizontal ones is time best spent.

-Lance

[warrior-scholar]

Hey Todd,
I am a vertically challenged individual, so Plyometrics are of great interest to me as well. Several years I contacted someone you might know about this topic...James Ibrao. He was very kind and helpful. Since we are about the same height, it gave me hope to know that Plyometrics were partly responsible for his ability to make the Harlem Globetrotters at one time.

I started out with the simple box hop drills...side to side and forward backward etc.
A really good idea to go along with Mr. Mercado's notion of specificity is to lower your fighting stance progressively ( a few inches for a week and gradually go lower) and practice coming up AS you execute a kick. Start with the simple kicks and increase difficulty. The added explosiveness should increase your horizontal AND vertical movement since you are coming up and kicking forward at the same time. Add push drags in there and it will be very challenging.

As mentioned, keep the reps reasonable.

Good luck!

[pigram86]

I actually use plyometrics, and was just trying to see if others do. I think they are great and have been doing them for years, dating back to 1983. I thought the website may be useful to others that may not use them.


chat later I have a meeting

[warrior-scholar]

BTW, thanks for the link!!! It is very nice.
I wonder if anyone has read Cochran's COMPLETE CONDITIONING FOR MARTIAL ARTS. It is a fairly common book so I am sure someone out there has a copy. He does a nice job of helping the reader create a style specific routine to supplement normal training.

[pigram86]

BTW, thanks for the link!!! It is very nice.
I wonder if anyone has read Cochran's COMPLETE CONDITIONING FOR MARTIAL ARTS. It is a fairly common book so I am sure someone out there has a copy. He does a nice job of helping the reader create a style specific routine to supplement normal training.

I have never read it, but i will check it out. THX

[Xperience]

I actually use plyometrics, and was just trying to see if others do. I think they are great and have been doing them for years, dating back to 1983. I thought the website may be useful to others that may not use them.


chat later I have a meeting

Hi p'86 ~
Got a question for ya . . . a couple of people mentioned the stress that the vertical training puts on the body, and suggested limited training along those lines; do you think that utilizing a well-padded surface, or even sand, might reduce that structural stress? Just curious.

:) X

[profesormental]

Greetings.

Padded surfaces may reduce the shock to the joints, yet the muscular tension on the maximum contraction phase is still quite a... "shock" to the body.

I suggest that on the explosive landing/compression phase that the body should be in a configuration to absorb the force of landing in a more gradual manner.

i.e. for jumps, land on the balls of the feet and absorb the landing with the movement of the joints (like a spring) instead of falling on the heels and absorbing the force of landing with the skeletal structure.

Thus padded surfaces are useful for long term plyometric training in reducing the musculoskeletal "jolt".

Again, I advise to be careful in using plyometrics; the rewards are promising, yet going through them without intelligent consideration and care may amount to joint and tendon injury.

Enjoy!

Juan M. Mercado

[Lance C]

Greetings.

Padded surfaces may reduce the shock to the joints, yet the muscular tension on the maximum contraction phase is still quite a... "shock" to the body.

I suggest that on the explosive landing/compression phase that the body should be in a configuration to absorb the force of landing in a more gradual manner.

i.e. for jumps, land on the balls of the feet and absorb the landing with the movement of the joints (like a spring) instead of falling on the heels and absorbing the force of landing with the skeletal structure.

Thus padded surfaces are useful for long term plyometric training in reducing the musculoskeletal "jolt".

Again, I advise to be careful in using plyometrics; the rewards are promising, yet going through them without intelligent consideration and care may amount to joint and tendon injury.

Enjoy!

Juan M. Mercado

The quiet "Ninja" or silent ;) landing is essential. We do doubles sometimes so you need to land quietly and then spring out of that without quite fully landing (well not flat heeled anyways)

Some checks for plyos are:

If you cannot land with grace, get stronger (or loose weight, or both!) before doing them again. You will notice a sensitivity when you do not perform during the "jumps" don't push it, no muscular control or loss of strength are signs you are going to blow something.

You will find severe differences in doing verticals and horizontals, most out of shape people handle the vertical better than horizontal (suppose that is depending where the weak link in the leg is)

I had some problems with some plyos due to being out of shape, get your cardio up or it becomes very stressful to your body and fat gain is immenent.

Don't forget to add in some coordination training at the same time (get a paddle ball and try that while doing the jumps!)

The things with plyos are that you can get some pretty amazing results, the training emulates what would happen running and jumping cross country without all the dangerous odd angles and slipper slopes that would instantly cause injuries, so a controlled environment is essential.

Bruce Lee used to use jump training to perfect his pre movie kicks before he went on screen using a trampoline. (He really had the time to work the in air parts without the tedium of gravity)

Personally speaking vertical plyos gave me the strength it takes to move a (lost more weight) 296 lb man forward into someone throwing a round house kick faster than the average person could throw it and knock them down. It helps MAJORLY with overcoming inertia, as well as the distance one can vertically glide.

-Lance

[pigram86]

Hi p'86 ~
Got a question for ya . . . a couple of people mentioned the stress that the vertical training puts on the body, and suggested limited training along those lines; do you think that utilizing a well-padded surface, or even sand, might reduce that structural stress? Just curious.

:) X
Hi X

I currently use a padded surface in my basement for my training. i also wear a pair of good cross training shoes. I would like to be able to train in sand, but there isn't much up here in Cleveland. When i lived in Florida in 1987, I made some of my best gains in leg strength while playing beach volleyball. So in my opinion, sand would be a great for reducing the stress on your joints. I have actually had more injuries doing heavy squats and 45 degree leg presses then with plyometrics. Just be careful and progress slowly and positives will out weigh the possible negatives. Again, just my perspective, I am kind of old school and believe, "If it doesn't kill you, it only makes you stronger" .

L8R

[warrior-scholar]

As far as the trampoline training goes, please don't try spinning kicks on a small backyard device...go to a gymnastics center. Bruises, scrapes and a VERY sore groin later I can tell you it isn't a good idea!!! But then again, I hadn't quite reached the wise old age of 30, so what did I know.

[Lance C]

As far as the trampoline training goes, please don't try spinning kicks on a small backyard device...go to a gymnastics center. Bruises, scrapes and a VERY sore groin later I can tell you it isn't a good idea!!! But then again, I hadn't quite reached the wise old age of 30, so what did I know.


I tried one of the smaller ones, and I bottomed out, I was standing on the trampoline in the middle and on the ground at the same time! Do not think any good could come of that!

-Lance

[Xperience]

Bruce Lee used to use jump training to perfect his pre movie kicks before he went on screen using a trampoline. (He really had the time to work the in air parts without the tedium of gravity)

Personally speaking vertical plyos gave me the strength it takes to move a (lost more weight) 296 lb man forward into someone throwing a round house kick faster than the average person could throw it and knock them down. It helps MAJORLY with overcoming inertia, as well as the distance one can vertically glide.

-Lance

Hi LC ~
I have an old friend/student/fellow-instr. who is about your size. I would imagine that you'd have a number of 'large martial artist(s)' training issues in common. I showed him how to neutralize the effects of inertia decades ago, using gravity. For you smaller folk...if your body weight exceeds 150 lb.s, inertia becomes a 'ground-speed' issue; as are quick turns & quick stops.
When you are in a fighting stance (rt. or left lead), if your center of gravity is high, inertia has you. I know that doesn't make sense, because it seems that a high center of gravity would contribute to mobility; but actually, it merely allows one to float. However, there is a happy medium: to maintain a relatively low center of gravity, with a slight bounce (like Jeff Speakman in the 'Perfect Weapon' TKD gym sparring scene). This keeps you mobile, and you still have gravity at your diposal to neutralize inertia. All you do is step (without first shifting your weight) with the nearest foot, to/in the direction you want to go. Also, it is imperative that you step with low ground clearance; Lifting your foot, disrupts your flow. My large friend/student/fellow-instr. said that it's one of the most important things he's learned to do; not to detract from your 'plyos' blurb.
:) X

[Lance C]

Hi LC ~
As I indicated in the per.mes. I sent you, I have an old friend/student/fellow-instr. named Paul Craddock, who is about your size. I would imagine that you'll have a number of 'large martial artist(s)' training issues in common. I showed him how to neutralize the effects of inertia decades ago, using gravity to his advantage. For you smaller folk...if your body weight exceeds 150 lb.s, inertia becomes an 'explosive-ground-speed' issue; as is quick turns & stops, as well.
When you are in a fighting stance (rt.or left lead), if your center of gravity is high, inertia has you. I know that doesn't make sense, because it seems that a high center of gravity would contribute to mobility; but actually, it doesn't. However there there is a happy medium: to maintain a low center of gravity, with a slight bounce (like Jeff Speakman in the 'Perfect Weapon' TKD gym sparring scene). This keeps you mobile, and you still have gravity at your diposal, to neutralize inertia. All you do is step (with out first shifting your weight) with the nearest foot, to the direction you want to go. Also, it is imperative that you step with low ground clearance; Lifting your foot, disrupts your flow. Paul says that it's one of the most important things he's learned to do; not to detract from your plyos blurb. You aught to drop him a line.
:) X

I think we are on common ground here, one of the problems is getting smaller fighters lifting you up and over during a fight. With having a high center of gravity (it could be worse since I have very short legs for my height) I have learned to "not get fork lifted" into a pole, off a cliff etc.. I learned that one from a Savate Instructor, I started king hitting his head (it was easy, since his head is where my geometeric efficiency is! At the end of my arm at shoulder height! He covered with his arms, and next thing you know, his elbows were under my arm pits like a fork lift, and he ran me into a padded wall hard!

I think being big and heavy there are pros and cons. One is metabolic efficiency, what a normal sized person can do, costs me twice the calories.

Getting up to speed on a short tackle (say on the green belt technique like Leap from Danger) if you are attacking you push the guy who rolls, running at him to force the round house kick (performance issue) is slow! I get smaller faster people to cut the time.

I have been doing cone sprints to help with this, but what Ken can do in 8.5 seconds talkes me 12.5 seconds! That's only 40 yards with 3 stops!

-Lance