Flexibility Training

[pigram86]

How does everyone do flexibility training? Do you do basic strecths or use strecthing machines? Do you use the PNF method? Or do you do the old way and put wax paper on your feet and go on a hardwood floor? I used to have Tom Krutz's tape on scientific stretching but can't seem to find it so just looking for different alternatives.

[Lance C]

Flexibility training:

3 minute run in class, or jumping jacks, builds up some heat in the body, then a basic loosening of the joints from head down (no stretching, just sort of a range of motion, lots of circles, but no tension)

Then we do basics, skills and techniques.

End of class stretching. Mostly static stretching, some runner stretches etc..

We avoid many traditional stretches, since we get results just doing what we do. The warmup seems to be much more important than forcing flexibility.

I tried PNF on my legs for kicking and had unbeliveable range of motion increases, but my power was severely reduced in a short time. Quick changes always throws the game off.

Something I learned, flexible people use their flexibility for power, rigid people use their rigidity for power, but trying for both, one can have them interfere with eachother. ie overflexibility from forced flexibility causes disability.

Is it possible to have both?

-Lance C

[pigram86]

Lance,

Sounds like you do some of the same things that I do when training. But I feel flexibility is very important. If I can kick to a target or opponent with power and speed at the head level, just think how fast and powerful kicks to the chest level will be.

I do kick stretches to the front , side, and rear every morning. They i repeat them before training and include inward and outward cresent stretches not kicks. I also do some old stretches from footbal for my hips. I acually have combined them with pushups by doing an exercise I found off www.bodybuilding.com (http://www.bodybuilding.com/) , called Hindu Pushups. I just started these yesterday and I have to say they are preety good.

Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts and time

[Lance C]

Lance,

Sounds like you do some of the same things that I do when training. But I feel flexibility is very important. If I can kick to a target or opponent with power and speed at the head level, just think how fast and powerful kicks to the chest level will be.

I do kick stretches to the front , side, and rear every morning. They i repeat them before training and include inward and outward cresent stretches not kicks. I also do some old stretches from footbal for my hips. I acually have combined them with pushups by doing an exercise I found off www.bodybuilding.com (http://www.bodybuilding.com/) , called Hindu Pushups. I just started these yesterday and I have to say they are preety good.

Again, thanks for sharing your thoughts and time


A few students have had their "bee in the bonnet" about doing the splits so they could do high kicks, if it gets forced, they can loosen their ligaments up unevenly and too much, when they impact, despite the tightning of tissues at impact, their legs loose alot of the hit out of them, this is usually noticeable with linear kicks, ie front snap kick and the leg buckles upward on impact (poor form and over stretching as root causes, (bad instructing too!))

As you stated good flexibility or "muscle looseness" in the range of motion is essential for good kicking. Linear kicks need rigidity on impact and circular kicks often rely on whipping with follow through.

Something to look at through the Kenpo kicking study are the low kicks thigh level or lower, since they are close in weapons, they are often underused since to be close enough to use them, you cannot see your targets.

I found with practicing high kicking it is easy for students to get into a rutt with their maneuver into the kick, they loose much of the horizontal of the kick and start focusing on an upwards motion, to be a good kicker is to separate the small diffences in the kicks. We practice our jumping front kicks (one legged leap) for horizontal power (using a herman) or for horizontal distance. Only rarely do we try for height, however still an important kick, if your oppoent has been bent over and you can land a striaght up power front kick, however playing the statistics game here has determined which one.

I like the leg stretches you mentioned. Perhaps it was Mr.Lamkin (Kevin) who suggested in one of his videos about keeping your body against the wall in various ways to alleviate balance and strength to stretch which ensures a better form (at the belt levels the kicks are learned at.) The student gets form and flexibility and builds strength and balance and everything comes together that way. I had success teaching proper shoulder alignment in back kicks, which other methods were much less successful prior.


Before this turnes into an opinion book, better leave it here.

-Lance

[pigram86]

A few students have had their "bee in the bonnet" about doing the splits so they could do high kicks, if it gets forced, they can loosen their ligaments up unevenly and too much, when they impact, despite the tightning of tissues at impact, their legs loose alot of the hit out of them, this is usually noticeable with linear kicks, ie front snap kick and the leg buckles upward on impact (poor form and over stretching as root causes, (bad instructing too!))

As you stated good flexibility or "muscle looseness" in the range of motion is essential for good kicking. Linear kicks need rigidity on impact and circular kicks often rely on whipping with follow through.

Something to look at through the Kenpo kicking study are the low kicks thigh level or lower, since they are close in weapons, they are often underused since to be close enough to use them, you cannot see your targets.

I found with practicing high kicking it is easy for students to get into a rutt with their maneuver into the kick, they loose much of the horizontal of the kick and start focusing on an upwards motion, to be a good kicker is to separate the small diffences in the kicks. We practice our jumping front kicks (one legged leap) for horizontal power (using a herman) or for horizontal distance. Only rarely do we try for height, however still an important kick, if your oppoent has been bent over and you can land a striaght up power front kick, however playing the statistics game here has determined which one.

I like the leg stretches you mentioned. Perhaps it was Mr.Lamkin (Kevin) who suggested in one of his videos about keeping your body against the wall in various ways to alleviate balance and strength to stretch which ensures a better form (at the belt levels the kicks are learned at.) The student gets form and flexibility and builds strength and balance and everything comes together that way. I had success teaching proper shoulder alignment in back kicks, which other methods were much less successful prior.


Before this turnes into an opinion book, better leave it here.

-Lance
You must be talking about the 'Wall'. I will tell you first hand it is murder.

The kick stretches that i am referring to come out of 'Secrets of Stretching' by Tom Kurtz. I bought back in '94 to achieve the full side splits. I almost got them. I got about 8" away. I actually did do the 'wax paper' old way back in 94. It really hurt, but it got me farther in the splits. I also had 2 pulleys on opposite walls and a double on the back wall. I would lie on my back, put ankle straps on and have my wife pull my legs apart and then leave me that way. I know I ripped off Jean Claude Van Damme in Kickboxer, but it gave me the results that I was looking for.

I don't think having differnt opinons is a bad thing especially about training. The more we share the more we can give to others. What may work for me, may or may not work for someone else. But when we are presented with different approaches, we should at least see if they work for us.

Do you have your students do any 5 or 7 step deep horse stance training? I have found that this to build strength and endurance in my legs. While doing this I try to do Finger set 1 or Blocking set 1. I have the 7" version of 'The Power' by Snap! playing, when the song is over, so is my stance.

Thanks again

[Lance C]

You must be talking about the 'Wall'. I will tell you first hand it is murder.

The kick stretches that i am referring to come out of 'Secrets of Stretching' by Tom Kurtz. I bought back in '94 to achieve the full side splits. I almost got them. I got about 8" away. I actually did do the 'wax paper' old way back in 94. It really hurt, but it got me farther in the splits. I also had 2 pulleys on opposite walls and a double on the back wall. I would lie on my back, put ankle straps on and have my wife pull my legs apart and then leave me that way. I know I ripped off Jean Claude Van Damme in Kickboxer, but it gave me the results that I was looking for.

I don't think having differnt opinons is a bad thing especially about training. The more we share the more we can give to others. What may work for me, may or may not work for someone else. But when we are presented with different approaches, we should at least see if they work for us.

Do you have your students do any 5 or 7 step deep horse stance training? I have found that this to build strength and endurance in my legs. While doing this I try to do Finger set 1 or Blocking set 1. I have the 7" version of 'The Power' by Snap! playing, when the song is over, so is my stance.

Thanks again

I have that song! Perhaps since "Perfect Weapon" came out, its the rally song for Kenpoists. We do alot of ground work and close kneel and wide kneel work in class, it does not take long for the group to really strengthen their legs through what the students refer to Kenpo Lunges. ie one foot, one knee (3 point stance, like a close kneel all the way down) and the students are required to kick, block and punch from a kneel. I found that some of these exercises really makes a student. The Ups and Downs are practical in a fight as well.

I do not think ground work can be started early enough, just try and not let the student get side tracked from their belt material. The problem lies with knowing and experiencing alot, it is easy to get sidetracked.

My assistant in class seems to like deep horse stances in training, am I correct in thinking that the 5 and 7 step horses are generated as the 3 step method of concave, convex then horse, only you add 2 and 4 more steps respectively?

A few of the new adult students are real perfectionists, perhaps a time to introduce a deeper training stance.

-Lance

[pigram86]

I have that song! Perhaps since "Perfect Weapon" came out, its the rally song for Kenpoists. We do alot of ground work and close kneel and wide kneel work in class, it does not take long for the group to really strengthen their legs through what the students refer to Kenpo Lunges. ie one foot, one knee (3 point stance, like a close kneel all the way down) and the students are required to kick, block and punch from a kneel. I found that some of these exercises really makes a student. The Ups and Downs are practical in a fight as well.

I do not think ground work can be started early enough, just try and not let the student get side tracked from their belt material. The problem lies with knowing and experiencing alot, it is easy to get sidetracked.

My assistant in class seems to like deep horse stances in training, am I correct in thinking that the 5 and 7 step horses are generated as the 3 step method of concave, convex then horse, only you add 2 and 4 more steps respectively?

A few of the new adult students are real perfectionists, perhaps a time to introduce a deeper training stance.

-Lance
The answer to the 5 and 7 step horse stance is yes.

I may have to give the' Kenpo Lunges' a shot. They sound grueling.

I know what you mean about getting side tracked. I did for 12 yrs.

'The Perfect Weapon' is the reason I started Kenpo. Something about it just made me want to learn this art.

[Lance C]

The answer to the 5 and 7 step horse stance is yes.

I may have to give the' Kenpo Lunges' a shot. They sound grueling.

I know what you mean about getting side tracked. I did for 12 yrs.

'The Perfect Weapon' is the reason I started Kenpo. Something about it just made me want to learn this art.


That was a very good movie, I tried to learn the form Jeff Speakman does at the beginning, it blew my mind what he was doing and being a karate dude for years, the form was nothing less than impossible. That's why I started Kenpo, well that and plus it was a good way to meet women (my wife is a Kenpoist)

Years later I learned enough to really examine the form Jeff Did in the movie and I see that it is a composite of Form 4, 5, 6, some finger set II and more (just evades me now) It was very pleasing to know the meaning of the form too, that was a long trip.

My next belt is very elusive, the club is growing (have 2 full time staff and 1 part timer coming aboard) and have been putting very much time perfecting what I teach students, my training towards belt ranking is S L O W, however the fitness is improving and my skills are sharpening.

After letting the class run for an extra minute, I got them to line up and start right into it. Another reach is having them stand at attention and isolate their foot and propell themselves (with no crouch) into the air like masaii dancing from Africa.

We also started doing (Thanks JamesS) doing Plyometric Pushups, fall forward from a standing position, catch yourself and propell yourself up as high as you can (sometimes back to standing position) Few can do that.

Keep up the training, and stay Warm! (about -20 Celcius yesterday)

-Lance C

[Lance C]

Here is a simple exercise that brings some kicking skills about, came from a martial arts called Savate (very similar to some of the Kenpo Kicks)

Bring your knee up to your shoulder, then bring your knee up to the opposite shoulder. Do other leg. (Done in a standing position)

The thinking of the other shoulder seems to mechanically align things better for certain kicks.

-Lance

[pigram86]

Here is a simple exercise that brings some kicking skills about, came from a martial arts called Savate (very similar to some of the Kenpo Kicks)

Bring your knee up to your shoulder, then bring your knee up to the opposite shoulder. Do other leg. (Done in a standing position)

The thinking of the other shoulder seems to mechanically align things better for certain kicks.

-Lance
I will have to give that a try. I don't know if i can get my knee to my shoulder, but i will give it a try.

[Lance C]

I will have to give that a try. I don't know if i can get my knee to my shoulder, but i will give it a try.

Note: Overdoing it is hard on the back! (Trapazeus muscle)

Over did it after class tonight.

However after watching YouTube my inspiration came back about developing some kicks.

-Lance C

[pigram86]

Note: Overdoing it is hard on the back! (Trapazeus muscle)

Over did it after class tonight.

However after watching YouTube my inspiration came back about developing some kicks.

-Lance C
What were you watching on Youtube? I have found some awesome stuff on kenpo out there. I'm just curious.

[Lance C]

Todd,

I was doing some research on Savate. They had a couple of kicks that I was curious about when facing a french kickboxer.

Particularly interesting was a Muay Thai vs Savate match.

These Savate guys learn to throw kicks like jabs and they use different portions of their foot to strike with. They often extend the toe all the way to the target for a slicing or poking action.

Savate meaning "old boot" they relied on their footware to do the damage and protect their foot.

-Lance

[pigram86]

Todd,

I was doing some research on Savate. They had a couple of kicks that I was curious about when facing a french kickboxer.

Particularly interesting was a Muay Thai vs Savate match.

These Savate guys learn to throw kicks like jabs and they use different portions of their foot to strike with. They often extend the toe all the way to the target for a slicing or poking action.

Savate meaning "old boot" they relied on their footware to do the damage and protect their foot.

-Lance
I will have to look at some of those when i get home. Youtube is blocked by our Pix and Checkpoint firewalls here at work, so i don't have access.

I don't know much about savate, except that the character on Street Fighter II, Vega, was awesome to play with.:)

I think some of the kenpo footage on youtube is done by one of the other regional reps.
Do a search on kenpo, and find kenpojujitsu33, i think.