Tai Chi

[Tiger_N2_Dragon]

As a new student in American Kenpo I have had a lot of questions pertaining to the art. I have a friend that knows a guy who is supposed to be a black belt in Tai Chi. The other night after coming home from my Kenpo lesson, my friend came over. He said that he had told his friend about me taking Kenpo. His friend said ?Kenpo guys are wimps?. Now, as a new artist this statement was disturbing and somewhat discouraging to me. Thinking, ?how could a black belt from another art make an accusation like this about another well respected art?? I have mentioned this particular incident to my teacher, but I would still like to get different views on this matter. I welcome any and all comments on this and also, how to respectfully deal with any future events. Thank you, tn2d

[Theban_Legion]

In my opinion, the type of individual who would say something about persons from other styles being "wimps" is not one who has any appreciation for the martial arts. There are no superior arts, only superior martial artists.

Don't let his comments bother you. The individual who said this may be incredibly insecure and covers by insulting people he does not know. His comments only have as much power over you as you allow.

Focus on your own training; let all else fall by the wayside. Don't become distracted from walking the path you have chosen.

[profesormental]

Hahahahahaaaaaa!!!!

A Tai Chi guy saying kenpo guys are wimps....

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAA!!!

First... tai Chi has no belts... its a Chinese art that focuses on health and energy (chi) development.

Historically, those that use only tai chi to fight, lose. They use other internal arts, like Ba Gua (pa kua) or/and hsing I to compliment their fighting.

Also, Tai Chi has been modified for use by old people, i.e. senior citizens.

From this you can note that my conclusion is that Tai Chi is for wimps... kenpo is for survivors and intellectual people that want to know why things work and the reason behind their movements...

a martial science.

you're in the right place.

sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado

P.S. I would write more on a peacefulness between the arts note, but I'm not in the mood. Note that tai Chi has its learnings and value, yet I will get into that later if asked...

I have my master's degree in physics tests in a few hours...

[Aramil]

I completely agree with Theban_Legion in that any sterio typing of an art like this is completely unjustified.


But I am completely in disagreement with profesormental. For he makes the same mistake this poor fellow who told you this did. As Theban_Legion stated (the exact quote I was going to make) that there are no supperior martial arts. Only martial artists.

But Tai Chi is not just for the health benifits. It can be used greatly as a self-defense.

And NEVER can you say anyone who trains in any certain style is a wimp or any other insult to an entire group of people.

It is a completly unjustified opinion with no basis of fact.

And also Tiger, belts were first made so a judo guy could grade his judo players. And it isn't anything more than that. It is nothing but a simple tool to measure your progress with. Do not worry about your belt ranking, but your own personel excellence you gain from your training.

Warriors don't quibble over witch martial art is best for no one art best fits everyone.

Disregard the statement from your tai chi friend. Also to profesormental, for this statement he has no right in making.

[warrior-scholar]

Remarks made to degrade any art in toto are probably not worth a response, but here it is anyway. Why do people make such comments? Are certain individuals so insecure concerning their own ability that they must stoop to name-calling? Perhaps this individual is merely ignorant concerning the efficacious nature of many forms of Kenpo/Kempo for personal defense and combat. I tend to think most people of this persuasion are simply stroking their egos or attempting to build up their own art because of insecurity. I have definitely met some Kenpo guys with the same attitude!

(As a side note-what do you mean by Kenpo anyway? The term is so broad! Our tai chi friend undoubtedly means a particular type of Kenpo. Furthermore, many Kenpo styles draw from Kung Fu, Okinawan fighting, Japanese Jujutsu, Filipino systems etc. In effect, then, he is also claiming many other arts to be ineffective.)

Part of this may also be a sign of the times. I am sure such comments date back to the early days of martial arts training in the U.S., but they are becoming more prevalent in the so-called age of MMA. Young martial artists unfortunately see and perhaps idolize many of the braggards of the UFC etc. With few exceptions, the thugs on television are not proper role models for the aspiring student. Besides the bad fighting habits such sport fighting can instill, the whole melodramatic soap opera built around this community fosters the sort of disrespectful talk as spoken by the Tai Chi "artist". I am afraid many instructors in the martial arts world have fallen asleep at the wheel with respect to producing students who are aware of what it takes physically, mentally and spiritually to be a true practitioner of the arts.

[profesormental]

Hello all!

Chuan Fa = Kenpo = Fist Method

Methods are ways to get results. As such they may be compared, analyzed and evaluated for their results.

Many martial skills practitioners customize and get results by their personal research methods. These are in the few and are normally the creators of new martial "arts".

Most only follow the prescriptions that worked for the founder. This is a cookie cutter apporach to a certain problem which is not that easy.

Most martial arts fall into the cookie cutter modality of training.

This yields substandard results.

Here in Puerto Rico, really have needed and used these skills. My students depend on the skills that I teach them. And they need to work.

HIstorically and I can get you references, Tai Chi for fighting has NOT worked, unless they learned something else.

Also, the Yang Style of Tai Chi was altered to have higher stances to accomodate the needs of "old" people, a.k.a. senior citizens, and injured or out of shape people; note my politically correctness for the sake of easily offended people.

My evaluation of that method is that its benefits are mostly for health and concentration and awareness of the bodies "energies" with some aplications for its use in healing. For offense these energy technologies are not enough without the physical technologies to deliver them in a destructive sequence.

They may make things easier, but are not enough on their own. This has been proven many times by various martial artists.

Also note that many that practice Tai Chi DO train in other arts like Wing Chun, Hung Gar, derivatives of Shaolin Chuan Fa or other internal arts with more martial application... why would that be if it was enough...?

How many of you train in Tai Chi for their direct Martial application? How many of you have trained in Tai Chi... I have...

And I ask, what kind of people do you see training in Tai Chi classes? Who of them actually think it will help them in a combat situation? Would you see any of those people in a combat oriented system training there... or is it too "barbaric" for them?

To these people the mere thought of violence in any way, even to save themselves, is repulsive and not even considered, and many would let other people walk over them...

These are wimps by dictionary definition.

Note that I also wrote the following...

"P.S. I would write more on a peacefulness between the arts note, but I'm not in the mood. Note that tai Chi has its learnings and value, yet I will get into that later if asked...

I have my master's degree in physics tests in a few hours..."

I passed them, so now I am a Master of Science, with concentration in physics and mathematics. Thank you.

My attempt at being supportive and humorous at the same time after being subjected to sleep depravation and incredible amounts of information integration
have been for naught... So i guess I should cover all my bases all the time and be politically correct... or have a fun poke and say something funny towards people that "maliciously" insulted a fellow kenpoist and at least make him laugh a bit.

At least I hope it was supportive and humorous for TN2D.

Enjoy!

Sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado

P.S. I'm recovering from months of intense study and sleep depravation, into my normally intense regimen with less sleep depravation. I am still not in a politically correct mood. Yet I can back up with references my conclusions.

Also, if you were teaching someone that is definitely going to use his skills, what method would you teach that person? Would it be Tai Chi? Personally, I wouldn't teach that.

Also, there are mathematical and logical theorems which state that from many ways to do thigs, there always exists a maximally efficient set of methods.

This is from complexity theory. So it does make sense to find you maximally effective method. The thing is that it is not found in studying ONE martial skills method.

I could tell you all where it is from the conclusions of a mathematical and scientific standpoint if you're interested... just ask.

[warrior-scholar]

One doesn't require a Masters degree in Mathematics or Physics to understand these principles, but thank you for the information anyway.

As a side note: Jwing-Ming Yang has written a book on Tai Chi Chuan martial applications for anyone interested. However, Professor's comments are still valid.

[profesormental]

I agree with Xperience, in that at application speeds, tai Chi Chuan can be used for redirections and projections, and looks like many other Kung Fu styles... yet I'm sure drills specialized for combat speed are trained in your method as to apply these principles and skills.

Normally, that is not the case, unfortunately, and that is OK!

Not everyone finds it fun. And that is OK.

My objection is that people that do NOT do those drills think that they have the skills...

which obviously they don't.

Also the spiraling "energies" that I've seen and I use for throws and projections can be used as a source of power for strikes in angles to cause unbalance... uprooting or sinking the center of the opponent to setup another major move...

These minor moves are very powerful indeed.

Sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado

[Aramil]

Tai Chi is useful as a self-defense. Every movement in there, wether it looks like it or not, is a movement of fighting.


From what my good Tai Chi friend has told me, about 90% of Tai Chi schools don't know jack. And Tai Chi is going down the drain as a martial art.

Quite sad. But I have studied very little of Tai Chi. But once my other Tai Chi guy comes back from Georgia (where he's helping another school) I'll train with him. And some more kempo stuff and Shaolin.

And I'm suppose to tell you that anyone who states that Tai Chi doesn't work for self-defense doesn't know jack.

[warrior-scholar]

"From what my good Tai Chi friend has told me, about 90% of Tai Chi schools don't know jack. And Tai Chi is going down the drain as a martial art."

Well at least there is one thing Tai Chi seems to have in common with the majority of martial art schools at the present!!! :(

[warrior-scholar]

I appreciate your words, but it is not always true that when crappy schools go down the drain the good ones will rise to the top. Marketing is a key element in the modern world of running a school. There are many schools in large metropolitan areas that make quite a lot of money, while offering a watered-down product taught by lower level students/instructors. I won't mention any names, but there are a few in Louisville, KY that have turned martial arts into a circus and done quite well. Unfortunately, there are some really good instructors in the area who just don't know how to run a business or market their instruction very well.

[warrior-scholar]

Well, we can't let this thread die, can we? I just want to interject a new thought from a 30 year taiji practitioner trained under Yung Ko-chou (Yang, Bagua), George Ling Hu (shuai jiao and xingyi), and Lu Ping-zhang (Wu).
Quote from Glenn Hairston:
"If you want to learn (taiji) for health, then you must learn it for self-defense, because by understanding how it it used for self-defense, only then, in my opinion, can you learn how to perform it correctly."

Just another perspective.

[Tiger_N2_Dragon]

Well, we can't let this thread die, can we? I just want to inteject a new thought from a 30 year taiji practitioner trained under Yung Ko-chou (Yang, Bagua), George Ling Hu (shuai jiao and xingyi), and Lu Ping-zhang (Wu).
Quote from Glenn Hairston:
"If you want to learn (taiji) for health, then you must learn it for self-defense, because by understanding how it it used for self-defense, only then, in my opinion, can you learn how to perform it correctly."

Just another perspetive.
What is "taiji" and its relation to tai chi?

[Aramil]

My father was hit by a car when he was in the 2nd grade while riding his new bike off of the farm like he wasn't supposed too. And he was in a coma for two weeks.


But back to Tai Chi, well...rather more along the lines of developement of chi. How often should one do chi developeing exercises like "lifting the sky" and Lohan Embracing Buddha?

Oh, and I don't study the Elite fighters stuff. Never even researched it. I am just in chuan fa which has American kempo in it and so I got dragged into this fourm.

[Moonie]

As a new student in American Kenpo I have had a lot of questions pertaining to the art. I have a friend that knows a guy who is supposed to be a black belt in Tai Chi. The other night after coming home from my Kenpo lesson, my friend came over. He said that he had told his friend about me taking Kenpo. His friend said ?Kenpo guys are wimps?. Now, as a new artist this statement was disturbing and somewhat discouraging to me. Thinking, ?how could a black belt from another art make an accusation like this about another well respected art?? I have mentioned this particular incident to my teacher, but I would still like to get different views on this matter. I welcome any and all comments on this and also, how to respectfully deal with any future events. Thank you, tn2d

Perhaps this guy is pulling your leg as my Granddad would say and joking with you.
Treating it like a joke will do you both good.

Moonie ;)