MMA and Fighting Ranges: Paradigm Shift or Dialectical Movement?

[warrior-scholar]

If you haven't had a chance to check out the September issue of Black Belt magazine please do. There are two interesting articles dealing with CQB and cage fighting. One article entitled "Paradigm Shift" argues that MMA competitions have demonstrated the existence of only two ranges of fighting. 1) Entering Phase (This includes kicking, punching and trapping)
2) Grappling Phase
The author continues to say that the entering phase lasts only mere seconds, thus negating the use of kicking, trapping and punching at long and middle range. "Performing and squarely landing a powerful technique under real-life street circumstances-in a fraction of a second against a person out to save his life and maybe kill you-is possible, but it's not likely." He then uses examples from early UFC fights (since most of them pitted fighters of disparate styles against one another) to back up this claim. He furthermore claims that certain critical truths concerning the alleged "paradigm shift" arise from this data. First, grappling is essential to learn [I wholeheartedly agree] because it is the ONLY art that forces opponents to fight on its terms. Others are forced to leave their ranges. Second, the grappler can reduce others to the level of unskilled fighter. Third, there are three C's of combat: charge, clinche, choke that obviously benefit the grappler. He states that this just mimics the way animals fight in nature.
I want some input here, but here are just a few humble observations. What shall we do when we leave the relatively controlled environment of the octagon? Can I grapple a man armed with a blade or slap a rear naked choke on one of three oncoming assailants? When my opponent is allowed to bite, choke and kick my kneecaps out should I then go for the take-down? Of course, my opponent can do the same to me, but how proficient will the average grappler be at these strikes? If you grab someone you are opening yourself to some vicious possibilities (hidden knives etc.).
It also appears that the author has not been watching his MMA tournaments as of late. The same issue of Black Belt records some interesting results: First, I wonder if anyone saw Chuck Liddell's recent destruction of Ortiz with some darn good mid-range strikes. Andrei Arlovski used more than a clinch to beat Justin Eilers. Rich Franklin pounded Evan Tanner with punches and kicks and avoided much grappling. David Loiseau actually finished off Charles McCarthy with a spinning back kick that pretty much gave him the go ahead to just annihilate. Of course, some of these fights ended with a choke or close range finisher, but the long and mid range attacks made everything possible. This is my problem with the aforementioned article-it denies the effectiveness of these ranges. The recent results tell a different story.
Another article in the same issue of Black Belt also tells a different story. Marc Denny of the Dog Brothers writes an excellent article concerning some of these very issues. He is promoting the use of what he terms "Kali Tudo" for use in MMA tournaments. More important than this are Denny's final comments concerning the evolution of MMA tournament fighting. "The new status quo lasts until a way is found to neutralize and/or counter those unfamiliar structures and dynamics. All advantages are transitory." So, Anthony Salzano's use of Paradigm Shift is actually inaccurate. Perhaps one should think of the recent developments in fighting as more of a dialectical movement from thesis (tradition) to antithesis (grappling/ground and pound) to synthesis (long, mid, close range). Recent fighting results in MMA tournaments seem to prove this movement. I believe that the Elite Fighters System will help us achieve excellence at all ranges. I also believe that ignoring long and mid range attacks could prove to be the demise of an attacker who subscribes to the "Paradigm Shift" approach.

[administrator]

There have been many articles regarding the topic that you have posted. The main concept that 'UFC type grapplers' hedge their bet on is this - they know that the average marital artist does not have the power and skills to disable someone within the first few moments of a clash. Through vigorous training, the skilled grappler can break the gap, take a kick boxer down, tie him up and finish him with a joint lock or choke hold. The skilled grappler trains in how to take a punch, and does well in his arena of competition.

However, there are skilled kick boxers who have proved that they do have the power and skills to knock some of these grapplers out.

Situations such as grappling against mulitple fighters, or while dealing with an armed confrontation need specialized studies.

The Elite-Fighters System of Martial Arts is designed to teach and train ones skills at all ranges of combat. There is no excuse for not having knockout power at the long and mid ranges. If one is lacking in that area, then training is needed. However, if you are against a superior kick boxer, then shooting forward and engaging in a grappling fight is sometimes the best alternative. Out training methods incorporates all ranges of combat training, against single or mulitple fighters, and while armed or against armed combatants.

Our emphasis is on training to high levels of all types of combat and how to maintain a workable vocablulary of fighting to answer all of the encounters that can possibly be conceived. We never advocate any specialized method of fighting or range of fighting to be superior to another. Our goal is to develop elite fighters who know when and how to apply tactics to be victorious in any situation.

Kevin Lamkin
Site Administrator

[Student]

I think watching UFC events are beneficial, but not the be all, end all to self defense. Most of the early fights from UFC were arranged to showcase BJJ. I think sport fighting provides and teaches alot. But in a "fight or flight" situation, there are no rules. You want to get out of there as quick as possible. I feel that sport fighting instills great conditioning and practicing of skills. It also demonstrates how resiliant the Human body can be. It has also taught most people in the Martial Arts, to continue to expand their knowledge and not train to fight in any one zone. I also feel that it can limit for self defense situations, because the person who is trained is used to fighting with rules. That's my .02 on the whole thing. I think Elite Fighters has done a great job of blending this together. It works great for me, because it ties in great with Kenpo. SO all areas are covered. I hope some day, they come out with a DVD on throws and takedowns, sort of like san shou. It would be quite advantageous to add that to our arsenal. I find there is always something more to learn. :)

[Lance C]

There are lots of Take Downs and Throws in American Kenpo! The AKLA authors have been able to document this well in their course material.

Kenpo is a seemless system of striking, controlling which includes many clever ways of making your opponent meet the ground, and an equal number of clever ways to prevent you meeting the ground.

This was tested at a Rock Concert Riot (well maybe it wasn't a riot, Canadians don't usually get riled up enough to call it a riot) We'll call it a pushy shovy, people getting elbowed, punched and kneed in a sardine can.

Kenpo footwork kept me from getting knocked or pulled down and assaulted while I helped an elderly gentleman and my wife get out, that's pure stand up grappling, bumping people out of the way.


-Lance

[profesormental]

We can break things into how many ranges we can think of. The important thing is how useful is the information and insight we get out of it, right?

Going up in generality we can break it down into 2 phases:

fighting and not fighting.

When combat is inevitable you can break it into general principles depending on objectives and the "rules of engagement", like "closest weapon to closest taget"(for strikes), or "make your opponent carry your weight" (ground control).

Most grapplers are not taught principles, they're taught tactics and techniques. The good ones develop strategies and they do several principl;es unconciously. The good thing about teaching principles is that they are in effect in every encounter.

Kenpo is supposed to teach principles and give examples of how they are used to teach proper execution. I'm happy that your training save you a lot of money on Hospital bills, Mr. Lance.

I look forward to study the materials of Elite Fighters. Looks like fun.

Sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado

[warrior-scholar]

. . . isn't Kenpo one smart martial art(?).
Enjoy your art. -RWL-

I think so, but try convincing UFC-crazy fans with no martial arts experience that it is worth their time and money to train kenpo after watching Couture or Hughes bulldog somebody and pound their face in. It seems that many of the fighters in these sporting events fail to understand basic angles and fighting range tactics. Just because a guy has a mean hook, weighs 205 pounds with 8% body fat, claims to be proficient in BJJ or Submission Fighting and has the entire Chinese alphabet scrawled on his back doesn't mean his fundamentals are sound. Even some of my beginning students comment on bad choices many of these fighters make regarding fighting range etc.

Kenpoists should ignore the paradigm shift rhetoric and seek to do what those before us have done so well.

By the way...I think Chuck Liddell used some middle and long range attacks over the weekend to punish one of the great wrestlers of our age.

[Tiger_N2_Dragon]

. . . isn't Kenpo one smart martial art(?).

Enjoy your art. -RWL-



I think so, but try convincing UFC-crazy fans with no martial arts experience that it is worth their time and money to train kenpo after watching Couture or Hughes bulldog somebody and pound their face in. It seems that many of the fighters in these sporting events fail to understand basic angles and fighting range tactics. Just because a guy has a mean hook, weighs 205 pounds with 8% body fat, claims to be proficient in BJJ or Submission Fighting and has the entire Chinese alphabet scrawled on his back doesn't mean his fundamentals are sound. Even some of my beginning students comment on bad choices many of these fighters make regarding fighting range etc.



Kenpoists should ignore the paradigm shift rhetoric and seek to do what those before us have done so well.



I also read this article in Black Belt Mag. I couldn?t believe that the author was so misinformed about martial arts. He basically said that a cage fighter had the advantage over a martial artist on the street. He backed up his opinion by stating cage fighters get to practice their techniques several times over while a martial artist doesn?t. He went on to say that a cage fighter will force a martial artist to fight this way, rendering the martial artist and all his training useless in this situation. I believe that they have failed to realize on the street we are not governed by a set of rules, especially rules that benefit the wrestler. We will grab their junk, gouge out eyes, and break bones. Therefore, I do not believe that cage fighters are the most elite or technical fighters. However I do think some are good at what they do and makes for a good TV night.

[Tiger_N2_Dragon]

Hello Ladies & Gents ~



Consider this: A good cage-fighter may not be a good street-fighter, but he might. A martial artist may be a great tournament champion, but a poor instructor, or a worse street-fighter. Some poor seedy schlepp on the street might be a tiger, when cornered in an alley. Whenever you are forced to defend yourself take nothing for granted, unless you wish to wake up on the wrong end of a hospital bed. It's all a matter of circumstance, but the worst mistake one can make, is to assume. The top cage-fighters make the best of what they have to work with, considering the rules. They are the champs, because they make the rules work for them. That doesn't automatically mean that they would founder without the rules; being tough goes a long way. It's easy to overanalyze, when your'e not in the heat of the fray. Technical info is good for understanding what's what, but for quick response, stay awake & keep it simple.

And as always, keep on smilin'

- RWL -



I understand what you?re saying about not underestimating your opponent, the rest I?m not sure. My point is, the author of this particular article made a big mistake underestimating martial artist as a group. He put cage fighters in one group and martial artist in another. His conclusion was that a cage fighter would in fact prevail over a martial artist in a street confrontation. I simply do not agree, there are NO RULES in a street fight, you fight to win. Now don?t get me wrong, I am not making the same mistake as our author friend in saying ALL martial artist would win this fight. With that said, I do think a dedicated and well trained martial artist would have the upper hand. If I were betting on a fight, my money would be placed on the martial artist, not a boxer or a wrestler. I may or may not loose my money, don't you think that would be decided by the skill level, dedication, and effort put forth from each fighter? Most UFC fighters only have a purple belt in some form of Martial Arts. To put this in perspective, who do you think would have the greater skill, a black belt in Kenpo or a cage fighter who has a purple belt in Jujitsu? Here again it?s not the color of the belt that makes you a good martial artist, it?s your attitude and how dedicated you are in trying to be the best in your current rank.

[Tiger_N2_Dragon]

Hi there T-N2-D ~

As you have stated, the author of the 'cage-fighter kicks MA's butt' article based his assumptions on erronious logic. However, there are no guarentees, regardless of your training. Like Daniel Boone or Davy Crockett or 'whoever' said, some days you get the barr & some days the barr gets you; in other words, it's all a matter of circumstance. We kenpoists train in the hope that when the situation arises, we get the barr. As I said, to that end, just stay awake(maintain awareness) & keep it simple(don't stand there & analiyze the situation till you get your butt kicked). That's how to 'keep it real'.

-RWL- ;)
Hello Xperience,

Point well taken, nice reply. By the way; I do enjoy reading your post, thanks for sharing your wisdom. :D

[profesormental]

Hi all!

A factor that was not mentioned is the operational objective of the combat scenaio...

MMA sports are competition... Kenpo and Elite fighter system practitioners use technologies that require another intention...

that depend on objectives...

Control?Domination of opponent...

Survive a violent situation any way possible...

And have killing intent if necessary...

and killing intent will almost always win over Control/Domination intent which is the intent of competition.

Does that make sense?

Note the list of illegal moves in competition... they are exactly the ones I would use against them... since they do not incorporate them into their training...

High impact moves that follow such manuvers are much more effective and things like fish hooking and eye gouges work real well.... followed by elbows and other strikes... and killing/maiming strikes are just as easy to do as knockout strikes in general...

That is why in about 1905 Judo practitioners were beaten by Karate practitioners... Judo was trained for sport... very good indeed...

Karate was trained for killing and survival... The Judo practitioners were defeated by killing intent and congruent techniques.

Sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado

[warrior-scholar]

Thank you for your comments professormental! Of course practitioner's of more reality-based combat have pointed out the limited nature of MMA sport-fighting for years, but still meet resistance. Think about it for a second...what would excite a teenage beginner to the martial arts more...learning skills that can be seen on television every week or a somewhat "theoretical" system that will require a lot of dedication with no "real" or immediate results? We will have to face these questions as we compete for the attention of practitioners in the modern age.

[profesormental]

Hi!

For the teeneagers/Macho testosterone freaks, I do demonstrations of what they could do... if they want more, I can control them and show them how easily I can tear them apart and how frightening killing intent would be...

I don't hurt them in the least however... just tire them a bit and let them feel a bit of hopelessness that comes from being controlled/dominated...

if they want sports, we train sports... and I show them how the "theory" makes the sports performace even better... since they know the "why" and the "how" also...

But those looking for power and survival... here we are...

I know that it seems like a small percentage of people... but it is enough to make a decent living and fill our schools...

Others are in it as a cult of personality and like the stories of the ancestors of the arts...

Others view it as a science and a challenge, or more...

What is important is your motivations and how they fit the students motivations ... and your marketing of these factors,

so you attract people that you actually WANT TO TRAIN!

I tell you, some people I just don't want to train, so I refer them to others. And that is ok.

Otherwise, it feels like the people I teach at the University... some really like it and that great... others really don't care less... and just want ot pass and see what I do with care, fun and passion as a stupid waste of their time...

I don't want that in my classes... they all have fun, smile, are challenged... some even say "No, I don't want to do that!!", comply and have fun anyways! (these are kids... the adults comply!)

Isn't it interesting to know that we find the study of destruction of the human body fun and entertaining?

Or is what we train something more than that? Who knows...

I just care that I like it and have fun and am challenged to train and get better every day.

Sincerely,

Juan M. Mercado

[warrior-scholar]

Please check out the latest issue of Black Belt magazine in which Keith Vargo states that MMA tournaments have demonstrated the effectiveness of kicking a downed opponent even though such strikes are illegal. This occurs when opponents are accidentally struck in this manner and great damage results, thus validating the reality of such tactics for training.

The best part of the article is the following quote:
"As for kicks to guys who are down, that's been part of kenpo for a long time."

Hey, sounds like half of the Brown belt curriculum to me!!!

[Xperience]

Thank you for your comments professormental! Of course practitioner's of more reality-based combat have pointed out the limited nature of MMA sport-fighting for years, but still meet resistance. Think about it for a second...what would excite a teenage beginner to the martial arts more...learning skills that can be seen on television every week or a somewhat "theoretical" system that will require a lot of dedication with no "real" or immediate results? We will have to face these questions as we compete for the attention of practitioners in the modern age.

Hi w-s ~
I know that it's a little late to chime in on this blurb, but better late than (you know). Anyway, a buddy of mine from Burbank is in town (Mesony 'Tony' Greene), and he's been out there in the middle of the MMA scene for decades; plus he works out with the UFC guys on a regular basis. He starts his students out with the MMA stuff, and then progresses them up to Kenpo (Silver Tiger M.A.). I just thought you guys might be glad to see the MMA stuff used to guide students toward the real thing, for a change.
;) X

[warrior-scholar]

That is great! Better than my method of kicking the snot out of them first...just kidding. I think if you guide them slowly into that training from an MMA perspective (what they know works from TV) they won't question the validity of kenpo as much as some do.

[Lance C]

That is great! Better than my method of kicking the snot out of them first...just kidding. I think if you guide them slowly into that training from an MMA perspective (what they know works from TV) they won't question the validity of kenpo as much as some do.


I looked at the posting and read statistics, and certainly putting the MMA in the post has made much attention!

Asking around in class, most people have an interest in the martial arts usually from watching media.

Myself was the movie: Enter the Dragon. Mostly you hear the movie names, sometimes you hear WWE (old WWF) wrestling, and many like the UFC and come in. After showing off some maneuvers in Kenpo with take downs and kneel ons and follow up strikes, it usually changes peoples minds about the MMA, American Kenpo is a composite art that incorporates bits from all over the world, look at the international name: American Kenpo Karate (Englsh, Chinese, Japanese) however I am sure martial arts from Thailand, Burma, Phillipines and Indonesia as well as the United States, (Hawaii or mainland) were all involved as examples that Kenpo was being refined to.

I did a demonstration tonight of where Kenpo can take you in the areas of multiple attackers and in the art of the running battle and was pretty successful in generating some attention. It was pleasing to see the end result. Just remember to speak in terms that your audience understands, even like the UFC lingo.

-Lance

[Xperience]

Hi L.C ~
Very good approach to your demo; especially for MMA devotees to observe. I started out in the grappling arts myself, and the Tracy's material just expanded those skills. The clincher is the the multiple-attacker angle, as you have demonstrated. No one wants to get the stuffing kicked out of them, while their tied up with someone on the ground. Being a tough kickboxer/grappler is fine, but no one plays by the rules on the street; so it's good that people see that, and realize how Kenpo can expand their bounds. Keep up the good work, my friend.

;) X

[Lance C]

Hi L.C ~
Very good approach to your demo; espesially for MMA devotees to observe. I started out in the grappling arts myself, and the Tracy's material just expanded those skills. The clincher is the the multiple-attacker angle, as you have demonstrated. No one wants to get the stuffing kicked out of them, while their tied up with someone on the ground. Being a tough kickboxer/grappler is fine, but no one plays by the rules on the street; so it's good that people see that, and realize how Kenpo can expand their bounds. Keep up the good work, my friend.

;) X

Here is a suggestion for the UFC, take a seasoned fighter and throw him in the ring with two new fighters and see what happens. I think you would see some of the two man attacks in Kenpo played out. It is a serious shift in your ability to fight.

I remember in WWF when King Kong Bundy took on about 5 midget wrestlers at once, they did not repeat the performance for long since it looked "wrong" that such a large man belly flopped on such small men, sometimes two at a time. However it is a match that is not easily forgotten.

Having been a training fighter you get a bit of awareness of where the referee is all the time, you just kinda track where he may be, although the ref is an innocent and you would not certainly be prepared for his attack! It does show a good example of a place to start. As a note: getting hit hard harms your eyes permanently, you get stigmatism like effects, the shock of being hit re-shapes your eyes, the elastic or ability of your eye to resume its original shape is not 100% so your eyesight comes back mostly, however it gets aggregate, the more you do it the more its misshapen, and you can damage bits of your eye in otherways. Sometimes I cannot read the computer screen and it fades back in over a couple of days, but it has taken its toll (mostly on one side.)
What I am getting at is you need to be aware of things around you, innocents, agressors and foreign objects that could ruin or make your day. However when you are excited and with the effects of already being hit, you really need to be aware, you are not functioning at 100% and you need coping skills to make a good doing of it.

Tactile Learners feel there way through a fight, and this "sensitivity" comes with much practice. Tactile learners often look around while fighting keeping awareness of their environment. Everyone is a tactile learner with various degrees of ability. I don't know if it has been decided that this tactile sense is a learned behaviour, an innate behaviour or a bit of both.


I made an assumption after reading "Master of the Ring" an Elite-Fighter e-book that there is an increased amount of grappling training. From my experience and certainly there is much broader experience than this, is that even in real life, someone always tries to push or pull your feet out from under you by going really low. There are some self defense attacks that are rare or unusual that with changing times may be worth a study.

Also advanced training should include the use of environmental objects like coffee tables, chairs. In Sevilla Region in Spain, it is common for a knife wielder to be attacked by the whole bar, they use chairs to pin him to the wall, jackets and the like are used to help parry and tie up the guy. Lamkin's record of Kenpo shows much environmental and object awareness, should be something not forgotten.

I'll end the blog here. It turned cold and much snow fell in the night, have lots of time to write.

-Lance C